FW: [WBEL-users] WBEL et al...

Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:11:51 -0500

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I don't get your point... these are browser windows, designed to look
similar (to a degree). I think when folks say Linux is ugly and Windows
is beautiful they are comparing Nautilus to Windows Explorer, OpenOffice
to MS Word, etc... which in my opinion they are right; Gnome and KDE
remind me of Windows 3.1, maybe NT4.0ish in some respects.

=20

Win Explorer hangs and crashes, Nautilus hangs and crashes, Word hangs
and crashes, OO hangs and crashes and I don't even want to start an
empirical discussion of which does it more... blah blah blah.

=20

I think the main schism here is the difference between "Server" and
"Workstation". Klaus doesn't "run a gui" and does everything from a
command line; sounds like a DBA to me ;-). Correlating performance,
event and security data from across a global enterprise and turning it
into information for decision support doesn't happen at the command
line, that's not what it was designed for. IMHO the command line is a
surgically precise tool but highly myopic and unintuitive, especially to
beginners and converts.

=20

That brings up what I think are the real shortcomings of ANY Linux
distro at this point: usability; or more correctly "non-technical,
user-intuitive, user-friendly operation". Specifically:

=20

1.)     Setup.exe versus rpm -ivh
linux-i386-sadfasdfhgha-asgs23-346.1234f123123.tar.gz --- DOH! You must
download and install glibc-i686 and downgrade nolib-i386 then re-run
yummy up2date... DOH! Now, after installation, edit text files, hunt for
executables, DOH! Change permissions then execute! DOH! Add -a -e -i -o
-u and sometimes -y options to executable on command line... why are
there are no icons in the menus or on the desktop=3F... ad nauseum...

=20

An extreme example to be sure, but I think it illustrates where the real
deficiencies are. Linux distros are great servers and are good
=66unctional desktops for technocrats and Unix romantics. However, from
the "real user" (has no idea what's behind the desktop AND DOESN'T CARE)
who has a task to complete to run a business since they were laid off
last week by a mega-conglomerate in order to preserve executive
management bonuses (I digress.. sorry) Linux is not a productive desktop
environment.

=20

I think it's up to us Linux fans to help bridge that gap by helping them
to perform their tasks and realize they don't have to be screwed to the
wall by licensing fees and still operate a desktop, office-productivity
tool without a degree in computer science.

=20

Thanks,

Johnny Manley

=20

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: whitebox-users-admin@beau.org
[mailto:whitebox-users-admin@beau.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:53 AM
To: whitebox-users@beau.org
Subject: Re: [WBEL-users] Eadem Enterprise is awesome!

=20

	If you are looking for user frienly interfaces just get windows
xp.- Microsoft fonts, guis, and click
	and drag file manager are well above kde and gnome. And the last
decision in gnome to make gtk fonts=20
	antialised just made things worst and ogly.

I don't agree with your opinion ... maybe someone can tell me how these:

http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_windows.png

http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-windows.png

Look any better than these:

http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_linux.png

http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-gnome.png

-Johnny Hughes=20

______________________________________________________________________________
This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.  Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer.  This email may have been monitored for policy compliance.  [021216]

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<div class=3DSection1>

I don&#8217;t get your point&#8230; these
are browser windows, designed to look similar (to a degree). I think when folks
say Linux is ugly and Windows is beautiful they are comparing Nautilus to
Windows Explorer, OpenOffice to MS Word, etc&#8230; which in my opinion they are
right; Gnome and KDE remind me of Windows 3.1, maybe NT4.0ish in some respects.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Win Explorer hangs and crashes, Nautilus
hangs and crashes, Word hangs and crashes, OO hangs and crashes and I
don&#8217;t even want to start an empirical discussion of which does it
more&#8230; blah blah blah.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

I think the main schism here is the
difference between &#8220;Server&#8221; and &#8220;Workstation&#8221;. Klaus
doesn&#8217;t &#8220;run a gui&#8221; and does everything from a command line; sounds
like a DBA to me ;-). Correlating performance, event and security data from
across a global enterprise and turning it into information for decision support
doesn&#8217;t happen at the command line, that&#8217;s not what it was designed
=66or. IMHO the command line is a surgically precise tool but highly myopic and
unintuitive, especially to beginners and converts.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

That brings up what I think are the real
shortcomings of ANY Linux distro at this point: usability; or more correctly
&#8220;non-technical, user-intuitive, user-friendly operation&#8221;.
Specifically:

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

1.)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Setup.exe versus rpm &#8211;ivh
linux-i386-sadfasdfhgha-asgs23-346.1234f123123.tar.gz --- DOH! You must
download and install glibc-i686 and downgrade nolib-i386 then re-run yummy
up2date&#8230; DOH! Now, after installation, edit text files, hunt for
executables, DOH! Change permissions then execute! DOH! Add &#8211;a &#8211;e
&#8211;i &#8211;o &#8211;u and sometimes &#8211;y options to executable on
command line&#8230; why are there are no icons in the menus or on the
desktop=3F... ad nauseum&#8230;

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

An extreme example to be sure, but I think
it illustrates where the real deficiencies are. Linux distros are great servers
and are good functional desktops for technocrats and Unix romantics. However,
=66rom the &#8220;real user&#8221; (has no idea what&#8217;s behind the desktop
AND DOESN&#8217;T CARE) who has a task to complete to run a business since they
were laid off last week by a mega-conglomerate in order to preserve executive
management bonuses (I digress.. sorry) Linux is not a productive desktop
environment.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think it&#8217;s up to us Linux fans to
help bridge that gap by helping them to perform their tasks and realize they
don&#8217;t have to be screwed to the wall by licensing fees and still operate
a desktop, office-productivity tool without a degree in computer science.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Johnny Manley</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
whitebox-users-admin@beau.org [mailto:whitebox-users-admin@beau.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Johnny Hughes<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Wednesday,
 April 28, 2004</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>5:53 AM</span></font><font size=3D2
=66ace=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> whitebox-users@beau.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [WBEL-users] Eadem
Enterprise is awesome!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style=3D'margin-left:
.5in'>If you are looking for user frienly interfaces just get windows xp.- Microsoft fonts, guis, and click</pre><pre
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>and drag file manager are well above kde and gnome. And the last decision in gnome to make gtk fonts </pre><pre
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>antialised just made things worst and ogly.</pre></blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
I don't agree with your opinion ... maybe someone can tell me how these:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_windows.png">http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_windows.png</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-windows.png">http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-windows.png</a><br>
<br>
Look any better than these:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_linux.png">http://www.hughesjr.com/osnews_linux.png</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-gnome.png">http://www.hughesjr.com/firefox-gnome.png</a><br>
<br>
-Johnny Hughes </span></font></p>

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This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.  Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer.  This email may have been monitored for policy compliance.  [021216]<br>
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