[blacklist] Re: [WBEL-users] Network detect

[Ed]

Hi Nick,

Nick Lunt wrote:
> Ed wrote
> 
> 
>>>Are NVIDIA actually distributing someone else's open source driver as
>>>opposed to their own?  I tried the NVIDIA driver first but it didn't
>>>work, which is why I had to use forcedeth.  But if forcedeth doesn't
>>>work for some reason, I would try the NVIDIA driver.
> 
> 
> I don't know what direction nvidia are taking, but they are making an effort
> to
> support their hardware on linux, which is a lot more than many manufacturers
> are doing.

I disagree.  All they need to do to "support" their hardware is to tell 
their customers how it works.  Releasing a binary-only driver under a 
restrictive license helps their bottom-line but does not help the linux 
community whatsoever.

Imagine buying a car with the hood locked shut, servicible only at 
"authorized" repair shops!  The fact that they are willing to 
"authorise" /some/ linux distributions on /some/ hardware platforms on 
/their/ terms is hardly generous: it would make more sense to unlock the 
  "hood".

> On nvidias website you can download RPM's for several flavours of linux, or
> you can download
> the .tar.gz file.
> 
> I downloaded the .tar.gz and it worked for RHEL3 and WBEL3. Nvidia's drivers
> definitely include the
> forcedeth (what a name) module, but whether they coded it themselves or not
> I couldnt say.

forcedeth is a pun on "forced ethernet" and "nforce" because it was 
reverse-engineered.  I'm surprised they embarass themselves by 
distributing it.

> 
> On my pc at home I've tried both RHEL and WBEL and neither supported my NIC
> or my soundcard.

It would be more correct to say that the company that made the NIC and 
soundcard have taken great pains to *prevent* linux from supporting 
their hardware in any meaningful way.

> I have an nforce m/b and use the NIC and soundcard on that. The drivers from
> nvidia got both my soundcard and NIC working.

I'm glad to hear they're working, though. :-)

> 
> I also have an ATI 9800 pro video card, which ati release linux drivers for,
> however it is a complete nightmare to get 3D working on RHEL/WBEL. No probs
> with Mandrake 10 however.

ATI is in the same camp as nvidia on this one.  They also keep their 
hardware specs a secret.

> 
> I think the problem for developers comes from the fact that linux has no set
> standard. Each version of linux is different which is IMHO why it's still a
> niche OS. The UnitedLinux branch is hopefully going to change this. Oracle
> and IBM are using the UnitedLinux label to promote their software onto the
> linux OS, as no doubt other software manufacturers are.

Linux follows the Posix standard.  The reason why nvidia does not 
support linux is that they (or more likely their lawyers) believe they 
can make more money by ignoring the real needs of linux users.

Almost all hardware companies will tell you how their hardware works, 
because they want people to use it.  Nvidia is an exception to the rule, 
and that is why video cards do not work as well as scsi cards or gigabit 
ehternet cards: it has nothing to do with "standards" and everything to 
do with their corporate culture and an irrational desire for secrecy.

I imagine the lawyers at nvidia think of themselves as being in a 
cold-war era spy movie, where if the linux users get ahold of the 
"secret device schematics" the Free World will be in danger.  They 
probably travel around in a suitcase, handcuffed to somebody's wrist.

> 
> Errm, Im gonna stop there, cos I seem to have gone off topic quite a bit,
> sorry ;)

Yeah, I didn't really want to make a big deal out of it, but it seems 
like its a common misconception that linux doesn't support video cards 
because something's wrong with linux, whereas people put a great deal of 
effort into trying to support video cards with almost *no* help from the 
companies that make them.  I can't tell you how many hours I've wasted 
trying to get proprietary drivers to work, but it's easily cost my 
employer $1000's of dollars of wasted time.

Good luck with your ethernet and sound board!

   Ed

> 
> -Nick.
> 
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