[WBEL-users] WBEL Vs Centos ? :-S

[Kirby C. Bohling]

On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 07:05:04PM -0500, William Hooper wrote:
> 
> Kirby C. Bohling said:
> [snip]
> > I can either wait for them to show up at NCSU (which it appears
> > every other single mirror of WBEL mirrors from that, every time it has
> > problems everyone has problems, and they have had problems at least 5-6
> > times in the 9-10 months I've used WBEL),
> 
> So now magically problems with a mirror John has no control over become
> his problems?

Count to 10 slowly.  Go to your happy place.  Go grab a coffee.  Do
whatever it is you do to relax.  Then read the rest of this message
like I wasn't trying to assign blame or point fingers.  I was merely
trying to describe a different perspective to you.  

You've started your reply by putting words in my mouth.  I never
said any of this was John's fault or something I want John to
resolve.

I'd really like you to explain how what any of you quoted implies
anything at all that could be construted to mean "problems with a
mirror John has no control over become his problems".  Other then
the "everyone has problems", I made no mention of John.  In that
context, "everyone" meant "everyone who depends on the mirrors",
which excludes John and anyone else who uses beau.org directly for
updates.  I suppose I should have been a bit more specific, but I'm
generally not that anal retentive when reading or writting emails.
I'll try to avoid any such confusion in this e-mail.

I specifically stated in the portion that you cut out, that none of
this was John's fault.  However, from the perspective of a _user_,
there is no difference between John not releasing the updates for
days and instantous mirroring, and John releasing them instantly and
the mirrors not having the updates for days.  As a user of WBEL,
both are an equally large problem for me.  Either one of them
prevents me from having updates.

You said roughly "it's not a Whitebox Issue".  In that context, you
meant it wasn't "This is not the fault of anyone who works at
beau.org".  However, Johnny Hughes (sorry if I'm putting words in
your mouth Johnny), said roughly "this was an issue with Whitebox".
In that context, he meant it's a problem for anyone who uses WB, not
that it's some deficiency of anyone at beau.org.  You are two ships
passing in the night.  You are seeming to try rebut what he said,
while using different interpretations of the same word (in this case
"Whitebox").  That's like trying to argue about the logical
statement:

"P implies Q", without agreeing on what the assertions P and Q are.
You can argue that it's either true or false, but if you don't agree
on what P and Q are does it really matter if you agree if it's true
or false?

You are both accurate, but you seemed to be attempting to correct
him.  He was perfectly accurate in what he said, I was merely
pointing that out.  You are completely correct in saying that it
isn't any one at beau.org's fault that the mirrors aren't up to
date.  I'll keep explaining that to you, until you acknowledge the
difference between the two statements.  Once you do, I'll have
nothing else to say.  That was the entire point of my previous
e-mail.

However, I'm more then a bit irritated that you've put words in my
mouth, so I'll keep explaining in more precise detail exactly what
it was I meant, that you try and twist into meaning something else.

Problems that users of WBEL have, aren't necessarily things that are
John's problems.  They might even be John's fault, but they surely
aren't all things I expect John to fix.  However, the start of this
thread, was "Hey, are there good reasons I should use WBEL over
CentOS or CentOS over WBEL".  Johnny was replying with a good reason
why you might look some place else.  Johnny never implied it was
anyone's fault, merely that one of the critera people use is
security updates, and posted about the history of WBEL's security
updates and their time to being available on public mirrors.

> 
> [snip]
> > At some point, someone should to convince one or two of the major
> > mirrors to talk with John Morris about getting direct rsync access and
> > pulling the mirrors straight from whiteboxlinux.org.
> 
> Wait a minute, now it is back to being the mirror admin's fault?  Make up
> your mind.

I didn't say it was anyone's fault, and I'm certainly not waffling
on any issues there.  Stop putting words in my mouth.  I'm not
attempting to assign blame.  The only person here trying to do that
seems to be you.  I'm saying it would be wonderful if there was more
then one entity that mirrored directly from whiteboxlinux.org.  I'm
in no position to arrange that short of just randomly choosing a
mirror and asking them to contact John and get an rsync password.  I
suppose I could try contacting the various mirror admins and ask
them to contact John directly.  I don't have access to anymore
bandwidth then beau.org, so I can't ask John for an rsync password
for public distribution for myself.  I suppose I could try and get
it for my own private use, but I'd rather see the problem solved in
a larger context.

> 
> Call it what you want, but I don't blame someone that has no control over
> a server for problems with said server.
> 

Re-read my e-mail again, I didn't blame anyone.  As I recall I said
this:

"It might not be Whiteboxlinux.org's fault (specifically anyone
involved at the library), but it surely is an issue for any
Whiteboxlinux.org user".

The "might" in the above quote wasn't a statement of probability, it
was meant as a logical modifier showing that it being WBEL's fault
or not, has no bearing it being a problem the users.  

	Thanks,
		Kirby